Global flavours, local savours: crafting global brands locally.

Lindsay Rogers • 00:04

Hello and welcome to the Brand Hunch Podcast, where we explore ideas and hunches around how marketers are growing great brands. It's a look under the hood, at what brand means in today's age.

In today's episode, I'm joined by Robin Marchant, current Senior Marketing Director at APAC at Klaviyo, the US publicly listed marketing automation software company, and a lot of us know and love.

Before this, Robin was Director of Marketing APAC at Shopify, and we've known each other for probably too many years. I think we met over ten years ago. Do you remember when we first met? 

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Robin Marchant • 00:35

I do remember it very well, and it was a long time ago. I'd like to say I had hair back then, but I didn't. So yeah, long, long time ago. And it's been a massive journey ever since then.

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Lindsay Rogers • 00:45

Yeah, you've had some really interesting roles across all different types of businesses. One common thread that I sort of see externally is that the roles that they’ve all sort of been tech led or tech focused. Why do you think that space interests you from a marketing perspective? Why have you gone for organisations that have a tech play?

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Robin Marchant • 01:02

I think it's where organisations that have interested me as those that are ambitious, growing and scaling. And so, you know, you often find yourself in, I’m not saying necessarily a niche, but you kind of go down a path and how you leverage that to take it to the next company or the next company. You see also opportunity, and that opportunity, I think when we met, it was with an Australian based organisation focusing Australia.

I'm from the UK. My backgrounds from working across EMEA and European marketing. So I kind of see that is like great, we've done Australia, we're next. And so you see, when companies look to grow in scale, it's often, you know, outside of Australia with newer markets potentially with newer products. So it's like where you see that, and that's exciting to me. Like you see this, where's the challenge, where's the next market and it's hard and it's difficult. But at the same time it's so exciting and so rewarding when you get it right. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 01:56

Which leads into my next question. What kind of marketer would you say you are? You know, there's all different types. They say there's, you know, CEOs, for example, that are sort of good time CEOs, there's others that are cost cutting. In the marketing sense, what’s sort of your skew? 

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Robin Marchant • 02:10

I would say if I was to pigeonhole or bracket myself, I had this funny, this conversation at lunchtime today with, with a former colleague, I class myself as a generalist. I've been lucky enough to wear many hats across the journey because often you are, you know, you can sometimes start with a team of one and you build a team out. But in doing so, you've got to jump from PR and comms to brand, to funnel, to demand, to sales engagement, to events. You know, and I personally, I love that.

But when you kind of go, well, what are the kind of important factors that help combine and drive all of that? There's two key buckets for me. And I would say that's data and brand, because fundamentally one informs the other. And you often have to be guided by the data. But don't be held to the data often.

It's a good insight. It's a driving force and it's a guide. But also when it comes to the brand, you know, you've got to have that brand that resonates with a personality like, who are you? What are you trying to say? And well you know, we're in a world full of continual messages time and time again.

And I'd say there's often, there's way more bad messages than good. So there is an opportunity when you get that personality cut through right? Utilising data, you can really land a message, but you've got to take the time and make the effort. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 03:33

It's an interesting, I mean, it's a continual conversation in the marketing sphere. How much of budget to be spending on performance versus brand and sort of, you know, what is the data telling you about historicals that may be useful to leverage in the future?

How have you sort of reconciled the way that you see your budgets or your teams? How do you split between sort of the stages of the funnel? 

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Robin Marchant • 03:52

You can look at it in a couple of ways, like where are you at the stage of your brand in terms of maturity? Are you tracking that? Are you measuring it? And what also, what's your goal like, what are you trying to achieve in terms of, you know, hypergrowth, scaling? Are you looking to address different markets and where are you positioned in those in different markets. It could be from different products, It could be different geographies as well. So leveraging the data per channel, but understanding the channels and where your audience sits. And the other part is like who is your audience? Because I know and I've been a victim of this myself, where we've kind of gone, hey, we need to do it, we need to do this.

And then been, you know, working with, you know, brands like yourselves to go, why? Like, what are you actually trying to achieve? And so, you know, as marketers, sometimes we jump straight to the solution without fully understanding the journey to where we want to get to and how and why. And I think that kind of comes back to, you know, measure twice, cut once, because often, you know, you've got a budget, you want to spend it or you've got a goal and you've got to hit it.

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Robin Marchant • 04:50

But I think when you take, even when you are more measured, there's elements of experience that you can lean on, data to guide you, but then a broader collaboration with other teams with greater experience, to help understand like what are you actually trying to achieve? 

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Lindsay Rogers • 05:06

Do you think that measured approach has come with it's sort of a rite of passage through your career as you've become a more established marketer? What would you say to sort of a younger marketer or somebody starting out around taking a measured approach when there are lots of shiny, shiny stars?

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Robin Marchant • 05:19

I think through my career I've been, you know, quite often working with founder led businesses. And in doing so, it comes down to where, you know, the budget and the activity you work with is almost, it's kind of used as a bit of a privilege. Because every dollar spent on marketing is a dollar taken from somewhere else.

And you've got to really justify, if I spent this on that, am I going to provide a return? And what does that look like to the business? Because that could go in other pockets and go other areas. And you really want to do that with a very clear frame of mind of what you're trying to achieve. And something I'll always say to the teams, because it's something I've had to experience, is, hey, if this was your last $1,000, would you spend it on that? Are you going to stand up in front of the owner or the CEO and 100% back this thing to drive the outcome you're trying to achieve? Because you should be absolutely 100% behind it. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 06:12

Yeah, on that note, what are some sort of wins that you've had talking to commercial, you know, non marketing people in regards to investing in brand or even just marketing as a whole? I could imagine when times are great, it's more than fine to invest in marketing. When times are tough, you know all eyes are on marketing. What's been your experience there? Where have you had some wins? 

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Robin Marchant • 06:30

I think the key, certainly from a, let's say, a business to business sense and how we often go through the channels of how we go to market. So whether that's through partnerships or through sales. And I think often the key is making sure you've got that strong collaboration with your peers and stakeholders across the business, often with the sales team. Many mistakes were made years ago in terms of the, you know, the marketing team would create something, sit in a corner and go dun-uh, here's our latest website, brochure, campaign, and it would have minimal to no involvement from the rest of the business.

But it felt like, oh, it was the right thing to do, and it would fall under fears, and often wouldn't work. And I think, as you know, over the last few years, you really placed a greater importance on the collaboration of how we go to market together, because often it's the teams that are working directly with customers, with the consumers who understand that voice of customer and how you can provide that feedback back.

Because I want to know fundamentally, hey, this campaign was amazing because. And you're going to get that from the sales teams, the partnerships teams, because they're the ones working from the face of the coalface in the business. But also you want to know, like why it was great, but also why it wasn't so great. So we can take that back address channels, address budget and elevate more of the good and address and understand why things necessarily didn't go, you know, to plan or according to what you wanted to achieve with them.

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Lindsay Rogers • 07:50

I think it takes so much humility too, to ask the hard questions around why something didn't work, not just the successes. They're the easy parts that sort of deconstructing how you can improve next time. Back to you as a sort of boss and as a leader, you kicked some pretty impressive goals across the businesses you've worked at and with.

And so question to you is sort of, you know, resounding word on the street from your teams that I know personally is that you've been, you know, a great boss and a great leader. What's your secret sauce? How have you sort of, how have you built great marketing teams? What's important to you? 

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Robin Marchant • 08:20

Thank you to those people who also have not been paid to say that. When I look at a marketing team and, you know, I'm sat right now at a table and there's 12 empty chairs around me. But let's say if that was full of marketers and different functions, maybe even different regions, everyone should be equal. Ideas come from every pocket in the organisation, because you've got different ten years within the business, different life experiences, and we all kind of have different tastes and needs and likes etc.. So I think it's always kind of keeping an open forum when it comes to ideas, ideations, team collaboration and meetings.

But I think the other part is being very honest and open. One girl I used to work with a couple of companies ago, she was really good in terms of she really wanted feedback, just like Robyn, give me the feedback, give me the good, the bad. And I was like, all right, great. Because often we kind of go, hey, that's good, keep going moving forwards.

But it was through that construction and she was, you know, very adamant that everything was a gift in that respect. So that was, you know, more eye opening for me in terms of, yeah, people are really hungry to learn and to build and to grow. And I always look at it as, and something I often say to teams is, hey look, I'm, you know, getting older, I've been doing this for a long time.

I'm going to be reporting to you one day. So I'm going to look after you today. So you look after me tomorrow, as you grow on and have these great, fantastic marketing, successful careers, because that's what people want to do. They're hungry to succeed, they want to grow, they want to learn, and they want to do a fantastic job.

So I love it when teams and humans are literally skipping to work, because it means they know what they should be doing, they're clear on outcomes and they know what it takes to help get there. Yes, there's challenges and trouble and you know, things that, you know, there's hiccups along the way. But that’s kind of also what makes it fun. And that's also where we learn. But as long as we learn together, we build together, we’ll succeed together.

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Lindsay Rogers • 10:15

It's such an interesting point you raise around the soft skills and around like creating an honest and open feedback loop with teams because I think, you know, everyone's got blind spots and you know, if we really believe in continual improvement then opening the door to that feedback is the only way to see and change and grow.

And that really does come through. I know, having known for many years, you definitely provide the environment for open and honest conversations, and you know, definitely credit to you there. Tell me a bit about what you're up to now professionally. You've just taken on a new role. How's it going? And I guess second part to that question is, what are the foundations, you’ve just come into a new role, what are the foundations you're either creating or have been created that you sort of need to sequentially build the marketing function from?

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Robin Marchant • 10:56

Yeah, like I'm really excited to have this opportunity with Klaviyo. You mentioned them in your intro, and it's really like seeing the future of how we power these smarter digital relationships that as businesses, we all want to achieve, do more with this data. While we're sitting on this stretch and breadth and depth of data across all organisations. And so how do we do that? Through greater personalisation, greater experiences, and through different channels, but we can achieve it. And it's, let's be fair, it's something we've been trying to do for a long time, but how you kind of bake it in with greater insight. 

So yeah, so Klaviyo is a great opportunity for me and how we kind of leverage these, you know, hundreds of thousands of brands across the world. Now in terms of building, or looking at the team and building out and understanding what we need to move forward. It's really like how do we scale? And a lot of the time it's listening, because we've been, you know, very, very successful globally. We've been very, very successful across the region in APAC. And so there were key ingredients that got us here. And as we kind of grow in scale and you know, look across the broader remit across APAC and it's understanding like how do we leverage what's got us here.

And then what are the missing or what are the extra components or missing parts that's going to help us to take it to the next layer of growth. And that's something, you know, I had a great opportunity to do that at Shopify, and kind of building out, you know, regional autonomous marketing team there and how we captured more markets across the APAC region with more products and to have fantastic scale, both through Covid.

So, yeah, you could argue there's a natural wave of progression that we were riding there, which is absolutely fantastic. But then what happens afterwards? You know, really kind of how you continue on that momentum. Great growth. And it honestly, it happens by working with great humans who are driven, passionate and clearly understanding the objectives and the growth that you want to achieve.

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Lindsay Rogers • 12:46

Yeah, amazing. I mean, you've worked obviously with Shopify in the APAC region and now this role. What have you learned about regional marketing? How do things differ outside of Australia? I mean, you know, looking at the sort of melting pot of what makes up an Asian Pacific region, it's probably one of the most diverse regions in the world, I would guess. How have you managed things and what have you learned?

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Robin Marchant • 13:05

I would say that I learn something new about the region every single day. There's not one day that you go, oh wow, that's, you know. Over the last several years of working across the APAC region, because there is so much to learn and understand. Countries that are right next door to each other are completely different and the things that we know, but often you take it for granted.

So how you position a message, how you position a product, how you start to talk to customers and how you need to kind of take that conversation. That's something that works so well in Australia and potentially in the UK, and the US will not land or work in Singapore. And that same message needs to be completely different again in Japan, you know, because firstly you've got those markets in the region that, yes, you know, business is operationally done in English, but the context of the conversation is completely different.

And then you start to add in the complexity of non-English language markets, and then you start to add the complexity of newer channels in those markets. And a lot of it sometimes is then depending on where your headquarters could be, if it's Australia or the US, it's also the continuation of education back to those teams too. To understand the why do we need to be adaptive? Why do we need to educate, look at new channels, you know, and potentially why do we need to increase spend or adjust our focus? Because if you want to land a message, you know, you have to respect the local culture, the channels and where those segments and customers are as well. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 14:31

It's an interesting, kind of, piece back to your earlier note around, you know, being open and, inquisitive and asking for feedback. I feel like, regional roles such as the, you know, working in the APAC region, you've sort of the only obvious way of pushing forward is being curious, asking questions, learning about cultures and differences and similarities, in ways that you've not had to maybe consider before. And perhaps it's playing really nicely to who you are as a person and your skill set sort of leaning into are there better ways we could be doing this. Or will this land locally rather than, essentially having an ego that thinks, you know the answer because you've been a marketer for many years?

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Robin Marchant • 15:07

I think that's right. It's being honest and open in terms of like, hey, I don't have the answers. You know, from experience, it could look like this, it can feel like this. But on top of that, the markets are evolving continuously. The landscape of marketing is changing continuously. Channel adoption, utilisation, consumption of messaging is changing continuously. And you know, you go from one market and it's got a high adoption of SMS messaging. And you go to another market and it's got a very low usage of email.

So when you kind of take out a similar communication, I dont know, let's just simplify it with email nurturing as an example. Now why are we getting results? It’s because you haven't fully understood the market and what channels and what communication mediums they’re going to consume and utilise. So it's really kind of being measured and understanding around that and being adaptive with your approach, but also knowing that you actually have to treat each country as an individual country. APAC as a region is not one thing. EMEA is not one thing. It's many, many complex markets. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 16:06

And so I talked at the start about sort of hunches, a hunch that I have. And I'm interested in your thoughts on this is that building a global brand locally is synonymous with trust between the two teams. How have you found the relationship between global and local brands?

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Robin Marchant • 16:19

Overcommunicate, overcommunicate and overcommunicate and never tire of repeating the story and sharing the context? When you think about it often, and let's say a global business is headquartered, let's just say the US. Predominantly, you know, a large percentage of the global target will be represented in that market.

And then you start to look at and then so you narrow the focus of target and where revenues are going to come from into the smaller markets. So when you think about it from where often global teams are sat, you’re piece of the pie and it's often a smaller piece of the pie. So you've really got to fight to educate and to say like why you need X thing.

But when you flip it and you go, where's the growth opportunity? It's often in those markets, you know, outside of where the headquarters is often established. So you've really got to articulate the story of the how on the why to do that and, but never tire of it because honestly, like I said, I'm learning something new every day, and I live and work in these markets.

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Lindsay Rogers • 17:19

Yeah.

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Robin Marchant • 17:19

You know, and then other, people within a business, they'll come in and out, they'll come in and out. So you just got to be repeat, repeat, repeat and never tire of that and utilise that continual message. Because when it works and it gets, you know, it goes right and it goes well, which it often does, you know, it's such a great feeling for the business. And then you start to really resonate and land that brand in those markets.

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Lindsay Rogers • 17:42

I know from personal experience that you have taken the approach that you sort of ask for forgiveness, not permission, in various contexts. Where do you think that comes from? And have you sort of, you know, what have you seen success wise from that, taking that approach? 

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Robin Marchant • 17:57

I think it goes back to the kind of the points around, you know, understanding what's needed and where and being measured in your approach. So there's elements of, okay, you're lining up a decision and you want to back it with data. What's the story line and why? And then when you see something that's work, and I think I've been fortunate early in my career to be afforded that opportunity where, you know, I was put into a role and it was like, yeah, just go do, make mistakes.

So I was encouraged to make mistakes, but in an educated manner to learn from that. And I think it's important for other members on the team is to kind of like look, try something, try and fail, but learn. It's pretty much been a mantra in many ways it’s like, if you're not making mistakes and you're not trying hard enough, it's like, but don't be afraid to make mistakes.

But I think that comes with collaboration, communication and leadership of, you know, for myself and to the teams above, but also the teams around me as well. And like taking that opportunity because sometimes, you know, for every clear, textbook playbook thing you need to do in each market, take an opportunity to try something you know, because you just never know what's going to land and just trust and believe in the people around you.

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Lindsay Rogers • 19:03

Yeah. Excellent. So talking broadly about sort of the marketing space and the role that you have played in the APAC region moving specifically to brand, how do you define brand? What does it mean to you? 

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Robin Marchant • 19:16

When I think of brand, I think of humans. Every human has a character and a personality. And I think that comes through the same as a business brand, because like we all say, it's your own personal brand. And we’re like you look after it, you take care of it, you nurture it, and you understand the impact it has on others around you. It's the same with an organisation. And so, you know, it's so true about having that personality and how you adapt to the personality, you, i’m not saying you control the personality. But you understand like what it means, and what it means to resonate with the audience you're trying to connect with.

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Lindsay Rogers • 19:52

Yeah. Conversely, I think, you know, you can definitely feel when something feels incongruent or feels kind of off you’re like, I know what they're trying to do there, but it doesn't quite feel on brand. I definitely sense that when brands take a little bit of a left of centre step. 

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Robin Marchant • 20:05

There was an advert on the radio yesterday, and I hate it when brands just use bullshit words over and over again, like, oh we are future focused and efficient. Like well whoop-de-doo. You know, like who isn't. it’s like well done. You've just literally said, I'm a thing and I exist. You know, it’s like, if there's no, you've just wasted money, who are you trying to be and what and why and it's not easy. I think that's actually the hardest part. And that’s something I've always, you know, struggled with and you spend the longest time on. It's the smallest thing. Like who are you trying to be to whom and why? And how do you articulate that in the least amount of words, in the smallest amount of context, so you actually can resonate and make a difference? It's not easy at all, and everyone’s trying to do it at the same time. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 20:56

Yeah, for sure. It’s like values where it's like customer centric, you know, like how many [LAUGHS] organisations, you know, where that's not going to be true in some sort. And also, is it horrible, fireable? You know, organisations standing for things that are sort of meaningful to end customers. Well who do you think makes a great brand? Who's inspiring you at the moment? And who do you look at and go, they're doing a killer job.

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Robin Marchant • 21:15

I think a couple of brands spring to mind and I think for different reasons. I'm liking the, like right now, Airbnb are doing a good job of really kind of owning a personality in the market and they’re utilising emotion very well, like they're understanding their audience.

They’re touting their strengths against, you know, big hotel chains, who again do a great job. And there's nothing wrong with staying in a hotel if it's a purpose. But they're kind of talking to the audience in like, hey, why do you need four hotel rooms? Have one house. Oh yeah, that'll be great. What a great experience I'm going to feel.

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Robin Marchant • 21:43

So they really kind of play with that feeling and emotion that something like a trip or a holiday, you know, you really want to ensue and live for that. And there's a tagline that I love more than anything. So not Airbnb. It's an alcoholic beverage brand. But I love Corona in their, from where you'd rather be. I think that's just like such a simple line. But I'm like, oh my god I just love that.

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Lindsay Rogers • 22:07

It’s got some so much emotion, hey. Especially when it's just a tag next to an image, you sort of see yourself there. 

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Robin Marchant • 22:14

Exactly. I could see myself there, I could position, doesn't matter. It's like, yeah, do I want to be here? I want to be there. It's just, it's inspiring, it's emotional, it's like you've already, yeah, you've already. I'm there. I'm already there. Thank you. I just love that.

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Lindsay Rogers • 22:28

I saw a great campaign for Corona just recently, I shared it with the team where, an agency found these stock images of sunsets and the sun setting over the ocean, created a bit of a bottle shape. And so all they did was put the Corona logo over the silhouette of the sunset. And it is so simple. I think, you know, they were touting it as the sort of $100 stock shot ad, but just so undeniably on brand. And I guess that's what you get for years of creating distinctive assets where you can lean into just your brandmark or just your tag.

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Robin Marchant • 22:57

Exactly. Because that brand has been built up, exactly that, over years and years and years. Because if it was a, you know, local microbrewery, who would have tried, it wouldn't have had the same outcome. The sentiments the same and the feeling, but it doesn't land in terms of like, I know who you are and what you're trying to say. And they’ve just really captured that essence and moment.

And then I think also like a local brand in Australia, like brand LSKD, like they’re really creating this movement and followership and people, you know, you look at they've, they've really done this huge growth from, you know, creating, you know, from a DTC brand. So now this full unified e-commerce, omni channel opening up stores, left front and centre across Australia.

And you see the queues, you know, line up of, you know, fans, you know, fans of the brand outside their stores all across Australia. And then how they capture those moments on social extremely well and how they kind of really drive that channel because they understand the segments, they know where their audience is, and they really talk to them and connect in that way. And I think that's it's such a powerful part of the journey and really strong messaging.

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Lindsay Rogers • 24:03

What do you think's in undervalued component of building brand love? What do you think we'll see more of in the future, in regards to growing brands? 

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Robin Marchant • 24:11

Community. I think there's a place and an area for this community of connected fans and supporters. And I think it doesn't matter if you're a B2B, B2C brand, there's an air where people want to connect with other humans and other like minded individuals. Because, you know, through my journey over the last few years and the challenges that we've all kind of faced and had, you kind of want to be connected again with something. You want to believe in something, follow something, connect in something and learn something.

So I think there's a real opportunity for people to really leverage and lean into this community build up and I think that it provides us all with a greater opportunity, and I think it's underutilised currently. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 24:51

I know when you were at Shopify, you did the South by Southwest Sydney activation locally, and it was great. I attended, and you had lots of great retailers on board showcasing their products. What do you think about in-person brand activations and getting sort of in-person, especially for a tech brand? Do you think there'll be more of that? I mean, you talked before about community. What do you think the role of in-person is in the marketing mix? 

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Robin Marchant • 25:12

Super important because what brands like, you know, Klaviyo can also do is bring brands together, like-minded individuals who are trying to solve a problem. You know, often they're not competing with each other, and sometimes they are, but they're willing to learn, lean in and address challenges together. Going to market right now is hard, it's complex, it's busy. We're faced with more challenges across the different channels we adopt and utilise, so people are willing to lean in and learn from one another.

And I think brands like Klaviyo can really kind of help bring those conversations together and pose those questions, but create kind of, I guess, collaborative and combined learning to drive outcomes for business. Because realistically, that's what we're all trying to achieve is these outcomes, not just outputs. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 25:57

Yeah. I have a second hunch that brands over time will continue to need to do good to succeed. What do you think about that? Do you think that that's sort of too lofty and too idealistic, that a brand would take on positive societal impact? Or do you think that consumers are expecting more? 

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Robin Marchant • 26:12

My hope is that naturally, businesses do good for the right reasons, not for marketing purposes, because again, it goes back to the personality and the authenticity of the brand.

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Lindsay Rogers • 26:23

Yeah.

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Robin Marchant • 26:24

Individuals lean on brands because they see that and they believe in what the mission of the brand is trying to achieve. And you got other brands that are doing it because oh we need to we need to be seen to be doing that versus truly believing it from the exec room down. And it's got to resonate from the business.

It's an important factor and it's just a responsibility we all should have. But I think as the generational shifts and we see kind of more, I guess, power and movement and I guess more economic impact from the newer generations coming through, you know, time will tell because they're the ones that are going to have more power. They're the ones that are going to have more disposable income.

So that will help. And then you'll see the winners and losers with the brands, who are just being more authentic with how they kind of drive through, versus the brands who are trying to, you know, I don't want to use the phrase greenwash, but let's just call it what it is. And I think that's also where personality really plays a key part to your community, to your audience and truly understanding your segments.

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Lindsay Rogers • 27:17

Yeah, great point. And also to proof points, you know, what is the actual impact for, you know, on whichever segment of society you're positively impacting? What are the, how can you attribute meaningful work to the words? You know, the sort of confidence behind the marketing story, sort of, you know, what sits behind that? And, you know, consumer research is showing that next generation expect a whole lot more. And they're highly loyal when it's genuine and easily switchable when that becomes, you know, when something’s discredited.

So it's an interesting trend, and I think, and I also hope there's more sort of do gooding, but not just from a marketing storytelling perspective. But from a whole of business transformation, which I believe brands should be a whole of business decision and buying as opposed to the marketing departments responsibility. Because it needs to sit across senior management all the way through to implementation in communities. And I think as soon as it becomes a marketing departments job with a budget, you know, it sort of loses a lot of impact.

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Robin Marchant • 28:06

The kind of the way I look at it is when you think about brands, brand is a result of all of the functions coming together. It's a sales and marketing relationship. It's how you show up as an organisation, you know, marketing, brand selling, it's a team sport. And so it's not the responsibility of one function. It's all the parts coming together and how that correlates and translates into everyday society that we all kind of live through. And I think that's a key component, is it's the sum of all the parts.

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Lindsay Rogers • 28:39

I was going to ask you about the relationship you see between sort of sales, the marketing function broadly and brand. How have you thought about that and how do you sort of, whether it's the metrics that are separated out or the relationship between the sort of three parts, how have you develop that over time? 

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Robin Marchant • 28:55

The key to it, when you think about from a B2B audience or even and you can kind of look at this equally from B2C, but just focus on that B2B and the challenge that you need to utilise. It's you know, how are you following the funnel, which is ultimately following that customer journey and experience and lining up with the relevant teams?

So whether that be sales, whether that be partnerships and channel. And making sure you're aligning it together, because at the heart of it, there is a customer. Well, there's a person buying or consuming something. They don't care what function they're talking to, what team did what, they don't care, they don't see it. So internally, you've got to make sure that's a real seamless experience.

And really, you know, have a consistent thread going through from unknown customer prospect who's never seen this brand before all the way through to, oh, great, I recognise and I see it. And then you go through that journey and then hopefully you buy something, you become a customer and then you become an advocate because ultimately that's what you want to have is these fans, these advocates that are selling the brand for you.

But to do that, you've got to get the pieces lined up internally, sales and marketing fully aligned and really across like how will you go to market, what the responsibility of one is to the other. But more importantly, how you work together because that's what makes a difference. And seeing this connected go to market motion. Then this kind of like, hey, I've done my bit, you know, that's over to you now. It's like, no, that's where it fails. That's where it falls apart.

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Lindsay Rogers • 30:17

Yeah. What do you think about B2B brands acting more like B2C brands over time from a marketing perspective or an investment in brand perspective? Traditionally, B2C brands are much earlier in their adoption of investing into brand and great creative. Do you think that shifting the needle for B2B brands, or do you think B2B sits in a totally separate sort of ballpark, and it's never going to be as cool?

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Robin Marchant • 30:38

It’s always an interesting one, this. And I remember years ago back in the UK, working for a brand and getting feedback. We were working with great brands and they were saying, oh, we love what you do, but we never see you anywhere. And so and I think that kind of stuck with me in terms of, yeah, why does, why when you think of the traditional marketing channels and, you know, the big billboards and out-of-home as exclusive medium just for B2C brands?

Because as a B2B buyer, I'm also walking down the street. I'm also seeing these billboards. I'm also on the train and there's like, and you should be talking to me too. So I'm consuming the same thing, just because I'm in an office or sat behind the laptop, I'm still going to see those channels and I think it adds force. And you're seeing it now in Sydney, and you see it in Sydney, you know, I'm based in Sydney and you see the lot. We're seeing more of these traditional B2B brands utilising the traditional B2C channels. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 31:33

It's great to see because, you know, ultimately it's more creative and insightful and interesting work in market, you know, and that's great storytelling, great ideas, much nicer to engage with than look out on a train or walking past than sort of the expected or traditional B2B, the functional messages.

And I guess that all ladders up to building brand, right, building brands and thinking about end customers as people as opposed to a metric or a business. And I think the rise of investing in brand and considering what a brand's tone of voice is and what they stand for, what they all sort of will and won't engage within current affairs or news, etc. all ladders down to then the approachability or the relatability within customers. 

When you were at Shopify, and I'm sure with Klaviyo now, you worked alongside a lot of really interesting retailers that are brands we know and love from memory. You know, Go-To Skincare, Boody, Who Gives A Crap, Allbirds, to name a few. What do you think has been their success? And I know there’s sort of probably bearing answers depending on which brand you’re thinking about. But what do you think sits behind why these brands have been successful over other comparable functional brands?

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Robin Marchant • 32:38

I think with the brands you've mentioned and the ones that always come to mind who have been fundamentally successful to almost like born online. And then, you know, a lot of them are now kind of going more into, you know, physical retail.

They’ve had strong identity, good personality. They've kind of captured a niche, but also they just really owned their identity, their narrative, and built a good following. That's a lot of time and investment. But they've kind of tried not to do too many things. They're really kind of focused on one area, one segment and really owned it because there was opportunity to do so, because a lot of those spaces became quite stale, quite stagnant.

July, luggage, great example of they just, look at them now like phenomenal. It's a great product that they backed and believed in. They had a story that they just kind of really leveraged and double down on, but they understood loyalty. They were really building a narrative around and making fans of their products. So their fans are now doing, you know, an incredible job of marketing them for themselves.

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Lindsay Rogers • 33:37

Yeah.

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Robin Marchant • 33:38

Boody, great brand, again, building loyalty, followership and a network, you know, of users and loyal fans who kind of market it for them. So, you know, as they talk and create that greater word of mouth as well. So they’ve really captured the essence of what a brand personality looks like when done well. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 33:54

Yeah, and I think a Go-To Skincare and Who Gives A Crap come to mind. I think for me, one of the most underplayed and biggest opportunities from a brand building perspective is in copy and really clever wording. You mentioned before arround succinct wording, but I think, you know, adding to that, really owning the tone of voice and how that tone spectrum is leveraged across the brand so that it's distinctive.

And I think in both those cases, they've done an excellent job, whether it's puns or whether it's vernacular or using colloquial terms to Go-To Skincare’s case, break down the complexities of the skincare regime into really relatable. Every woman in their 30’s feels like they want to be best friends with Zoe Foster Blake, and I think they've done a great job of taking the founder's tone through authentically into the brand, and that comes through. It's a huge differentiator, and I hope we see more brands leaning into really great copywriting. That is from a really strong tone of voice and knows who they are in themselves. 

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Robin Marchant • 34:45

Oh, absolutely. I think that's the key part, when you believe in it from the get go. But yes, you have a leader and it comes very top down and it comes through the brand. So the brand is a reflection of the founder of the messaging, and it resonates and it's consistent, consistent through every single touchpoint. You know you mentioned Who Gives A Crap, I remember distinctly the first time I ever saw Who Gives A Crap branding or Who Gives A Crap toilet rolls, in I have no idea which bathroom it was, but it was in Melbourne, I remember that, and I was like, what is this?

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Lindsay Rogers • 35:14

Yeah. 

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Robin Marchant • 35:14

And then now I get the box of 50 toilet rolls delivered to the house every whatever it is, so often, and it's just such a great job and they just have fun with it. And I think there's the thing, a lot of these brands, they have fun with that brand as well. And that just connects with the audiences so well. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 35:29

Yeah, and Who Gives A Crap, and they've done a great job in reimagining every touchpoint or element that they have to their brand. The boxes, the paper wraps themselves, you know, let alone all of the other eDM and great brand touchpoints. And I think there's product innovation there, wrapping a toilet paper so that it's individually wrapped is, you know, different to other competitors.

But as an Airbnb host, that's a really great product innovation, plus branding reflects me as a person, but also sort of let's guests that are staying know that it's a fresh roll of toilet paper. So I think it's sort of that mix of product innovation that's just slightly better than the rest, mixed with brand that just, they know who they are, and it sort of creates this undeniably interesting kind of brand that's hard to compete with.

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Robin Marchant • 36:05

Well when think about the brands we’ve just mentioned. Skin care, toilet paper, luggage, underwear, all crowded, competitive spaces, and these brands have managed to not just cut through, but exceed scale and grow, and be now the known names of brands in their segments. 

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Lindsay Rogers • 36:22

Yeah, love it. Last question. What's ahead for you? What do you think is around the corner? What are you focused on in your new role?

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Robin Marchant • 36:29

Scaling, growing, building, and taking Klaviyo from strength to strength. I’m lucky to be in a position where I get to take what's been, you know, incredible brand with fantastic growth to date. And seeing the next phase of that growth as we build out the company, our customer base all across the APAC region. And so I'm absolutely chomping at the bit to get going with that.

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Lindsay Rogers • 36:48

Thank you for your time. I think it's been a thoroughly enjoyable conversation, and thanks for sharing your journey and some of the ways that you view brands and the marketing space. 

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Robin Marchant • 36:57

Awesome. No, thank you Lindsay and Chello team. Always, always fun to work with. And honestly, I learn something new every single time we always have a catch up and conversation, so I really appreciate that.

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Lindsay Rogers • 37:11

So there we have it. My chat with Robin Marchant. An absolute legend, a great guy and a sophisticated marketer. I think for me, what I took from it was the hunch around global and local APAC marketing teams needing to have trust, and I think adding to that. He definitely gave me perspective on the importance of humility. And even though he's a trusted representative and experienced marketer in the region, we actually don't know at all, especially when it comes to different countries within a region. So trust is important, but also humility and over communicating.